Text Proofing versus Living It Out

I was impressed and disappointed at reading the excerpt from Brian McLaren's explanation of John 14:6 that wasn't included in his book, The Secret Message of Jesus.

You can find this located on his website at: http://www.brianmclaren.net/emc/archives/McLaren%20-%20John%2014.6.pdf

 

Here is why he impressed me, because he clearly showed that the Disciples weren't grasping everything Jesus had stated. Let us always remember John wrote this after he was given the Holy Spirit, and did know Christ personally. So there are two aspects to the narrative we must keep in mind.

Also I know that Brian has a distaste for linear thinking or systematic theology. I as well overall. Mainly because I don't think the Bible was given to us, to proof text from or to create doctrines, in the sense that this defines a Christian or Christianity. It's the story that counts, the love of God expressed through His Son to the world.

Herein is the problem, I see, when someone ask us a particular question based on squeezing Scripture into proof text, a narrative explanation such as he gave, avoids the person's question.

In other words, the person has one thing in mind, Did or Didn't Jesus say, He was the only way to the Father?

Now, here is how I would have dealt with the issue, first off, I am in absolute agreement with Brian on my stand against Penal Substitution and the tradition of men on their teaching on hellfire damnation. I whole heartedly believe in the "Christus Victor Atonement Model "over all else. Why? Well I won't go into that here, not enough room to write and it would take a lot of scripture, church history and more to show you, the Scriptural logic of Christus Victor over Penal Substitution.

Let me give you one, simple answer, Jesus says "forgive seventy times, seven, and tells us to love our enemy," so thus, since He is the expression of the Father in human flesh, and all his words portray to us, the revealed Word of God, then why would Jesus ask us to do something, that the Father either can't or won't?  So, I'll let you chew on that awhile.

Now away from my digression.

My answer would have been first fold, not disregarding Brian's answer, it was well given, but left to no absolute, there has to be some absolutes, but not dogmatic absolutes, that puts down anyone or any other religion, but rather, points to the statement made by John here in regard to what Jesus stated in John 14:6. I also believe there is a way to do this in a loving manner, rather than leaving someone with an open answer, that really leaves it to the person, asking the question, as to whether John's statement was an absolute, or just open for definition, or to one's own preference of how to see something. Christ made a very clear statement that "I am the way, the truth, and the life."  To me that is a pretty absolute statement.  Now, I will agree, it is necessary narratively to express that out further in what does He mean the Way, or the Truth, or the Life?

When someone ask for an absolute answer, we must not leave it open to conjecture by the person asking, especially when such an important question is asked. The person asking could be, Hindu, Buddhist, Confucianist, even Atheist. Here often is what they are saying in their question, "You Christians think Jesus is the only way to know the Creator, but we believe our way is to know the Creator"... or they would expect us, to reply by most Christians replies to the question, Yep, that's what the Bible says, so I believe it, and I'm sorry but your belief system will send you to hell!

Wrong!  This is the inappropriate answer..  I would show that everyone knows of God. Don't believe, then read Romans 1:18-23. 

¹⁸ The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, ¹⁹ since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. ²⁰ For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 ²¹ For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. ²² Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools ²³ and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Now this scripture clearly condemns all forms of religion, even much of Christian religion. Religion is religion, and it all fails to show the Creator.  We can also see, that man in the study of anthroplogy, if not creating idols in the forms of creation, also worshiped those things that revealed the Creator, the Sun, the Moon and even the Stars.

I would then go onto explain that Scripture shows, that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" – Christians as well. We have surely worshiped much more than Christ alone, especially Western Christianity, which is largely based on Materialism and Worship of Church, Pastors, Religion, Nation, Zionism, you name it, and all of it's displaced worship of spirit and truth in Christ and Him alone.

 

Then I would show through scripture by scripture the claims Christ made, versus religion. I think this is one of the most important things the church is missing out on providing even those today who claim to be Christian, is that there are many IDOLS we can have, even our own form of "Christianity" if it is only based on man's traditions, and man's conceptions, and basically putting God in a box. Now I am not saying once again as a Christian we can't have any absolute, but that absolute must be Christ and Him alone, as the only way to know the Father and the Son, and in so doing they have eternal life. Not focusing on what happens after you die, but focusing on what you have in the here and now.

Making Christ come to only redeem us from hell, to send us to heaven, is the worst, theological and eschatological mistake and heretical error in my opinion the traditionalist have made.

Christ came to save that which was lost, and to redeem and restore all mankind to What God Intended Man To Be, the Imagio Dei, the Image of Him, our Creator, not because we walk on two legs, or have two arms, or even a brain to think with, but to be the expression of Him in behavior, this thus is what the fruits of the Spirit reveals in our lives, it is the expression of the Father in us, as us, and through us.

 

So for me, to even proclaim Christ or to seek to draw others to Christ, or even call myself, Christian, there has to be at least this proof text per se, for me to trust Him and only Him.

To do otherwise opens the door for me to all religions, to trust in for salvation from not hell, but myself.  This is life, that we are ALL dead in Sin and Trespasses, and only Christ gives life, yes life that is eternal, but eternity doesn't begin after we die, it begins in time and space where we are now. Too often, Christian Theology has been focused on nothing more than the ancient idea of pagans, even the Egyptians believed, and taught eternal life, based on much of the same basis that most Christians do today a physical existence in a proposed place of " I got a mansion, just over the hilltop." 

 

Now I said in not so clear of terms as I wanted to express myself, I agree with Brian, but I also disagree, in his only approach to the answer, to the question asked.

Brian's answer is somewhat ambiguous.

 

Now, let me add, my point of view here on something, that is important a little off track to this, but not actually. We Christians do and I think rightfully so, believe what Jesus was saying here, but we sometimes and most often, limit our answer, like I said above, and are to arbitrary, and even antagonistic, in our answer, to those who may be in another religion, and in my opinion, atheism and agnosticism is as religious as Buddhism, or any other religion, it still seeks to down grade the Creator to mere worship of creation. "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven ".

Do you ever ask what does this mean?
Too often we have placed this only in the context of homosexuality especially these days, as if this is the only wrath of God!

We have many more problems then that, we have drug addiction, addiction to materialism, domestic and child abuse, alcoholism, war, poverty, hunger, injustice, and the list goes on. These things are the "Wrath of God Revealed".
Not some unquenchable hellfire later, but the hell we all live around us everyday in the here and now! Open your eyes, to many of your own problems with yourself, and your own family, and you have to see the hell that is there.
Jesus  came to give us life and life more abundantly and this doesn't mean riches, beyond measure in the material sense, like the false Health Wealth & Prosperity teachers put out there. He didn't come to make us successful, in the definition of the worlds' idea of success, to be perfectly healthy, perhaps we could be more healthy, if we heeded our diets, and sure didn't come to make us rich in money and the things we own and posses.
He came to bring the Kingdom of God to us.
Where beauty, justice, mercy and compassion is all around us and given out to all, yes, even the lost world about us.

The big problem I see with all the eschatological views out, there, especially the futurist one, is it displaces the Kingdom of God to way out there someday when Jesus comes, well sorry folks He has already come, and stated in a clear and eternal voice, The Kingdom of God is in your midst!

Now we must ask what is the Kingdom of God, well it also has been wrongly defined, by many groups, sects, denominations, etc. What I love about comparing scripture to scripture is we can get to the meat and definition of things, if we study hard enough and long enough, a feat that most Christians dare not task, it's too easy to just rely on what someone told you, rather than to seek God yourself and His truths.

We have two clear definitions, one is that it is a spiritual kingdom, but this doesn't exclude it from becoming active in the reality of the world around us, but we also know that Paul defines, the Kingdom of God as thus, joy, righteousness and peace!  Look it up, there is the definition. Now, we are lazy, instead of the presentation of Christ as the now and present means to experience, know  and activate this Kingdom, we are waiting on Christ to come back and force it in to existence. He is waiting on us, who have prayed to long vainly, Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will Be Done, On Earth As It Is In Heaven".  Christ wasn't talking about what the Tim LaHaye's, and other futurist are preaching with their false fictional stories of the Rapture or Heaven or the remaking of the earth, or any of that.
Christ explains throughout the whole narrative by His life lived, His deeds done, and His Words given, the Kingdom is and can be a reality in the here and now.
This is why I eft both Futurist, Preterist, ammilenialist, and on and on eschatology, and became a realist, idealist, and spiritual Eschatologist.
See my explanations by linking to my view from the link provided on this page - "Christ In You Now!"

 

Now we must ask, is this Kingdom which we know is spiritual, and is the Father's Will for the planet earth, or there would have been no need for the Lord to teach us to ask for something, that's not possible to some far out future, does it and can it translate into the world around us. Of course, not in the sense that every time we see man's good , we can say , that it is the Kingdom of God, but it translates in how we personal interact with the world and of course the Father and Son first.

We must ask how can we give the world that which we are suppose to have, if we are the King's children. How can this become possible on earth as it is in heaven? How can the Father's will be made known, on earth as it is in heaven?

How do we give joy, righteousness and peace to others around us, do we provide that with a message of condemnation and hellfire, or through the message Christ gave the lost, love and forgiveness, How can we provide the world around us, righteousness?  Do we provide food to the hungry, healthcare and healing to the sick and hurting, do we make sure true justice is equal for all men, of course, this is bringing the will of the Father to bare on planet earth. How do we provide peace? Do we do it as so been atypical of conservative and right wing, Christianity? War, and more war, attacking everyone that crosses us or threatens us? Do we bring peace by love, mercy, compassion, loving our enemy? Jesus has defined already what the Spiritual aspects of that Kingdom is, and we still don't get it. Thus, hell reigns around us, in our communities, our states, our countries, even our own families and more often then not, within our own mind, body and spirit.

Jesus shows in his life and everything that He spoke how to get there, but even Christians still don't get it, we have theologized and twisted everything Christ said, right down to No regard for peace, or forgiveness for our enemy, or "those that trespass against us". 
We have chosen for 1900 years, the words of men, like Augustine's Just War, and Calvin, Luther and host of other predominant speakers who have taken Christ out of the equation, and put it all down into doctrines, that we divide over, and fight over, and still there is no answer yet for Christ prayer.

You know how you hate it, when you pray so hard about something, and it just seems to bounce off heaven's doors, and nothing happens, I surely believe at times from what I hear and see in Christendom. Jesus must feel the same way. Let's hear  his final prayer, here in John 17:20-23

²⁰ "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, ²¹ that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. ²² I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— ²³ I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

 

I tell you if you can proof text, John 14:6,  I can proof text John 17:20-23.  Pay close attention to the last part of that.

Now we ask, is Dr. J. proposes, and promoting the "World Council of Churches".  My answer is clearly NO!

What I am proposing, is when Christians come to love one another, laying down their lives for one another, and exemplifying, seeking out that which is lost, and are focused on these attributes of relationship rather then Theologies, Doctrines, and Eschatologies of Men and their traditions and get back to the basics of what it means to be a Christian, that is not defined in a specific written definition of the Bible as cited by men, but by the heart of God within them, the very life of Christ that we all share, and realize, Christianity, is not something we believe in, but it is a relationship with the one who His Christ, and that He is in EACH OF US, who claim His name, there will be the falling down of the doors of division, strife and faction, and Jesus prayer will be finally answered..... Then the world will know that you sent me, and have loved them even as you loved me.

 

This is the heart of winning the world for Christ. How can other religions ever believe in "a religion", the religion we have made of Christ, when it's as divided, and divisive as all religion is, and all religions with it's many divisions.

 

My prayer is not for Christians to worry so much about what will happen or question do other religions get to go to heaven or not? My prayer is for Christians to answer Christ prayer, and then the Kingdom of God, the Will of God, will come to earth as it is in heaven.

 

Amen

 

Doctor J.